Suspended floor issues

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I have a suspended floor in one room in my house and it is allowing a musty smell (my partner describes it a s sweet somewhat chemical smell but I found it to be more like rotten onions?) into the room?
I took up the floor as there were some rotten boards and joist's and ended up taking all the wood out of the floor. I sprayed the brickwork and sub floor with an anti rot and mold treatment and then replaced the joist's and timbers putting kingspan between them taping all the joins with foil tape. Then I replaced the floor boards with OBD3 boards and also taped all joins with the same foil tape.

I made sure before doing this that the air vents were clear for air circulation under the new floor, I then expected that with the new insulation and the fact that all edges and joins in both the insulation and floor boards would keep the smell from entering the room. No such luck!

Have I done something wrong? Could I go down the rout off filling the floor with concrete?
How can I get rid of this smell that is coming from the sub floor?

I should add that when we took up the old floor the sub floor had no signs of being damp, it was very dry and dusty as we found out when we swept it clean of any loose debris
 
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Hi,

How disappointing for you Carole having gone to so much time and trouble only to have the problem remain. Obviously the new flooring wouldn't smell when laid but if the smell was still there then the new flooring will quickly pick it up; you mention subfloor; what is the subfloor composed of? Is the smell isolated to one room only or is that it's more noticeable in that particular room. Having had to remove rotten floorboards indicates an underlying problem with damp which a new floor won't cure even though you've taken so many precautions; why did the original floorboards rot in the first place. If you've got solid floors elsewhere then perhaps the smell is escaping through the easiest route making it quite noticeable? Could the smell be coming from elsewhere such as the vents if the vents are to the cavity and there is some damp in there. I can understand your frustration because you're having to live with the problem; could you afford to have a reputable building inspector take a good look at the problem?

The web is full of of such problems regarding musty smell; I've just had a quick browse;

https://www.hunker.com/12581828/how-to-get-rid-of-a-musty-smell-in-wood-flooring

I'd be suspicious of the rotten floorboards as to what caused the rot; did you replace the joists too? Sorry if I'm not much help but so many things can be the cause of musty smells. Dehumidifiers are suggested but these won't cure the basic problem only hide it?

For years we were troubled with water ingress under our bungalow and it was getting steadily worse each year but kept being put off due to more pressing problems; finally I got around to tackling the problem; we live on a very steep valley side; water runoff from our big rear garden ran straight down to our patio and to the kitchen wall; I knocked a hole in the floor supporting wall and using a torch could see the area where water was gaining access; it started below the floor under the kitchen sink and as it ran downhill it fanned out in a big wedge accumulating in the lowest point; at times in winter I was removing four buckets of water so enough was enough. Under the kitchen sink the floorboards were wet and I couldn't believe my bad luck; the outlet pipe from the sink had a joint inside the wall cavity and the joint had parted hence a lot of the sink water discharged directly into the cavity and made its way to the lowest point; fixing the pipe joint was easy enough and I thought all was well but in bad weather water still accumulated under the floor. I waited until the worst of the bad weather passed then I got stuck into this problem; I installed flood defences; the water was gaining access through a faulty mortar joint between foundation and wall base; I cleaned out the entire joint area and made good with a strong mortar mix but then I ran a fully bedded row of engineering bricks along the outside of the wall base to foundation; I wanted to cure this problem once and for all so I then installed a wide drain channel to divert any water entering the channel to discharge freely to the bungalow side; I also replaced all the clay drains with new plastic drains but another job I did was to get rid of the open hoppers that were always full of slugs and debris; both hoppers were replaced by capped soil pipes and then the patio flags relaid; a big job working entirely on my own with Bron fully supporting me.

We also suffered water ingress to two ceilings six weeks after moving into this our dream bungalow; Legal & General Insurance told us to get lost when we put in a claim saying the problem was lack of maintenance; Bron and I ended up replacing the entire roof ourselves and to this day detest and hate insurance companies especially Legal & General.

Water problems still persisted; a two roomed extension had been built to the bungalow rear; the cowboys stuffed the clay pipe joints with plastic shopping bags and even broke a junction without replacing it then buried the lot under 19" thick concreted; foul water was entering the wall cavity and emerging in the corner of the garage me thinking it to be rainwater; another job I enjoyed putting it right (NOT).

I wasn't going to get off so easily after all I attract bad luck; the garage floor was always wet in another area so I finally got around to sorting it; I replaced foundation bricks using engineering bricks and water proof mortar; I installed a small diameter weep drain inside the cavity bottom and vented this drain to the garage outside wall; a new DPC was installed as work commenced; I also found where the water was getting in so the mortar joint was repaired; this bungalow and all the houses on this small private estate are built by the late Jack Brook and they are definitely "Jack built".

OK Carole so I've rambled on but as I said earlier so many things can cause a musty smell and I believe in one way or another damp is involved; we went the whole way though with both rainwater and foul water and plenty of it. Good luck with your problem and don't despair. :)

Kind regards, Colin.

Water everywhere_009..JPG


Water pond under room floor.

Water everywhere_006.JPG


Faulty wall to foundation mortar joint; cowboy builders were here.

Water everywhere_010. Flood defences (6).JPG


New flood defense channel; old concrete is foundation new engineering bricks fully bedded over foundation to wall joint; new concrete is 4" thick laid with a slope connecting to a 4" dia plastic drain pipe allowing any water to drain harmlessly to the bungalow side.

Water everywhere_001.JPG


Do the job once and do it right however long it takes. Doing everything myself I saved a fortune on home repairs knowing I hadn't skimped on anything.

Water everywhere_007.JPG


No one would guess the amount of work carried out under the patio.

Water everywhere_008.JPG


A close up of my method to get rid of old open clay hoppers; no chance of being filled with slugs and debris now; all it took was to spend time thinking about the problems and coming up with solutions before starting work; just because something has been a certain way for 100 years doesn't mean its the best way; I was taught to use my head and both hands.

Water everywhere_002.JPG


Under the extension floor; toilet and kitchen waste combined at a broken junction the joint stuffed with plastic shopping bags; is this the best British workman can now do; shame on the lot of them.

Water everywhere_003.JPG


The garage floor; overdue to be sorted but I can only do so much at once.

Water everywhere_004.JPG


Work under way; at first I was trying to be gentle using hammer and cold chisel but it was taking forever so I attacked the wall with my big SDS drill in chisel mode; breaking the bricks each side of center was found easiest. Yet another horrible job and I dare not remove more than three bricks each time because it's a supporting wall but I could remove more than one section at a time as long as the wall remained safely supported.

Water everywhere_005.JPG


New engineering bricks laid with waterproof mortar and a new small diameter drain inside the cavity; I've never seen such a drain installed so can claim the idea as my own. the floor remains dry as do the other repairs. I stress I'm self taught regarding all the building work I carry out but I spend ages researching before jumping in; because I save so much money doing the work I can afford to take my time and buy best materials possible; I didn't know mortar could be made water proof until i did the research.

We've suffered days of high wind and heavy rain hence I'm reduced to being a keyboard warrior once again.
 
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I have to say you have done a very good job there Colin, I'm a little like you when it comes to being self taught and thinking about job's before I tackle them I also like to do my research which is why I'm here really.
The room in question is the only room with a suspended floor and the sub floor at first looked like soil however I have since decided that it is cement (not concrete) all be it in a very thin layer. One corner of the room looked to be hollow under the concrete?
I was thinking that if replacing the wooden floor didn't work should I fill the area with concrete thus ending the problem all together?
My thoughts on that were that if I did this I would be bridging the internal damp course however this could be resolved with a membrane installed first, and also the air bricks would need to be blocked off on the outside wall to prevent water ingress and/damp air into the Cavity ( the walls here are very well built 9" outer with 9" inner)
The other worry I have is that by filling in the floor I could be moving a problem from one place to another as it were.
 
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Hi,

Thanks Carole. :)

A bit of thought and a bit of wasted paper whilst sketching can save endless problems but so many people jump in with just an idea ending up with a disaster.

How much height is there between subfloor and joists? How big is the room. If there is enough height then a decent membrane and concrete should seal the lot off; 2" thick concrete I reckon would be plenty then you could retain the wooden floor which is a lot more comfortable than a solid floor; ventilation is important so if you can leave the air bricks as they are until you see how things work out after concreting; yes lots of care needed not to bridge the DPC but the membrane will be cut off at the top of the concrete? I would never tamper with outside wall air vents in fact more is better than less; I'm against filling cavities in too because the cavity is there to promote air circulation. Our floors are boarded and over the years the joints have opened but it doesn't bother me because the gaps aid ventilation; the sub floor is like a concrete raft the concrete laid quite roughly and is on a slope.

I don't envy you the work Carole but hopefully adding a membrane and a layer of concrete will address the problem once and for all; it will take a while though for the smell to diminish but once cut off at source any smell in the joists and new floor should fade. I can understand your concern regarding moving the problem elsewhere but as your other floors are dry and smell free then you should be OK.

1838


I don't recommend spending on an expensive moisture meter but if you have a friendly builder who has one it would be a good starting point to see exactly what moisture is present? With the sub floor fully sealed and decent ventilation I'd expect the problem to disappear within a few weeks?

Good on you Carole for tackling DIY and by what you say you're doing a good job. :)

Kind regards, Colin.
 

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